Explanations/etymology also appreciated!

For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).

And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.

In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.

Don’t forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.

In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames “Kevin” and “Otto” for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.

ndguardian
link
fedilink
132Y

As someone with a brother named Kevin, I can confirm he’s doing his part to uphold that depiction.

dreadgoat
link
fedilink
8
edit-2
2Y

I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious

ValiantDust
link
fedilink
102Y

Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.

Isn’t it Erika Musterfrau?

ValiantDust
link
fedilink
32Y

Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.

Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “

In my country (Spanish speaking) we say “Fulano de tal” Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. “De tal” really means something like “from somewhere”.

We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like “imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx”.

There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.

Edit: My mom sometimes uses “Miguel Perez”. Those 2 are very common first and last names.

Beto
link
fedilink
192Y

In Brazil (Portuguese speaking) we also use Fulano de tal. I didn’t know it was used in other countries!

We also “José Ninguém” and “Maria Ninguém” to mean someone who’s a nobody. It literally means Joseph/Mary (very common names in Brazil) Nobody.

And “Zé das Couves” (but this one is used more rarely).

lalo
link
fedilink
32Y

There’s also a name that expresses the same feeling of ‘Joe Schmoe’ in pt-br: ‘Zé Roela’

And to expand on Fulano’s family, we must not forget Beltrano and Ciclano.

Does this came from arabic influence?

To refer someone without a name or generic name we sometime say Fulan bin Fulan meaning someone the son of someone

A lot of Spanish words and culture come from Arabic influences, the iberic peninsula was under control of arabs on the VIII century.

jsveiga
banned
link
fedilink
82Y

Wow! It most certainly came from that!

TIL, thanks! (brazilian here).

jsveiga
banned
link
fedilink
42Y

Just checked in a Brazilian Portuguese real made from trees dictionary, indeed comes from arabic (indicated by the “ár fulân”)

There’s something similar in Italian, Tal dei Tali. Literally something like that one of those ones

@fubo@lemmy.world
link
fedilink
39
edit-2
2Y

In US legal cases, “John Doe”, “Jane Roe”, and similar names are used for pseudonymized legal parties.

For instance, the plaintiff in the famous abortion case Roe v. Wade was one Norma McCorvey, identified as “Jane Roe”.

A group of unidentified people appearing as plaintiffs or defendants may be called a group of “Does”, from the name John Doe.

The words doe and roe both refer to deer, which are common wild animals in North America — and as wild animals, represent an arbitrary unspecified person. A doe is a female deer; and while “roe” can also mean fish eggs, roe deer is a common European species of deer.

Good bot

@drkt@feddit.dk
link
fedilink
32
edit-2
2Y

Denmark -

Brian <- A name, but also a slur for people considered ‘hillbilly’. Very frequently used against people who drive cheap tuner hatchbacks. Said cars can be referred to as Brian Cars.

Peter Jensen <- Also a name, but it’s become notorious in Jutland because it feels like everyone is immediately related to someone with this exact first and last name.

I can’t tell you how much I love that Denmark has hillbillys who drive hatchbacks and are called fuckin’ Brian as a slur.

Interesting. In the UK (at least when I was growing up, I haven’t lived there for some time) we called doing up shit cars as Barry-ing them. I know in other parts of the country they used the name Ned or Kev to refer to the people that drove those cars.

I think more generally people use " hr. og fru Jensen" for a more exact analog of “John/Jane Smith”

But Peter Jensen was the most common name in Denmark for many years, so you’re not completely wrong.

so what do you just go ‘du er brian!’ lmfao

Used that way it would be " du er en Brian"

jeg er en sej brian og du er en brain

Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It’s used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in erlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.

That’s the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it’s way too long and artificial, I don’t think the name Mustermann actually exists.

When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I’d probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).

In older publication you may alse find references to “der deutsche Michel” (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because “der deutsche Michel” doesn’t see the pointor would never pick it up.

Haven’t seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)

dotmatrix
link
fedilink
22Y

also “Otto Normalverbraucher”

We have the phrase ‘every Tom, Dick and Harry’ which is like that (UK)

If we’re talking about a generic person it’s usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)

livus
link
fedilink
42Y

Do you have “every man and his dog”? (Same meaning as every Tom Dick or Harry")

Yeah we do :)

In Australia we have Joe Bloggs, but it sounds English. Do you have him in England?

essell
link
fedilink
22Y

Yup, he gets everywhere

@Fenzik@lemmy.ml
link
fedilink
20
edit-2
2Y

In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.

It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”

Which correlates nicely with the English expression “your average Joe”!

Pietson
link
fedilink
72Y

In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet (“Jan with the cap”)

We also have the slur of “sjonnie en anita” when talking about lower class, anti social people, “sjonnie” being the man and “anita” the woman.

appel
link
fedilink
22Y

Would Jan Lul be relevant to this discussion?

Grimlo9ic
link
fedilink
17
edit-2
2Y

In the Philippines, it’s Juan and Maria dela Cruz, although those have fallen out of use due to the popularity of Western (aka US) culture. Interesting reading about every country’s own names for their everyman.

In Vietnam, I think it’s just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.

Funny enough, many names aren’t always gendered, so I’ve met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.

Flemish talking part of Belgium it is Jan Janssen

In the UK for a random guy it’s usually Joe Bloggs.

In Norway we have the stereotypical Norwegians “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari were quite common names a couple generations ago (not so common now). “Nordmann” literally translates to “Norwegian [person]”, but is also a not-too-uncommon last name.

We typically talk about them if we’re describing something or some situation and what the stereotypical Norwegian would do/think.

lemmy
link
fedilink
52Y

“Nordmann” is also a german word. It means “Norseman/Northman” or “Man from the north”.

In the UK it is Joe Bloggs

Also Fred Bloggs in Australia — maybe they’re related?

In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

Icon by @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de

  • 0 users online
  • 244 users / day
  • 957 users / week
  • 2.45K users / month
  • 5.6K users / 6 months
  • 1 subscriber
  • 3.07K Posts
  • 119K Comments
  • Modlog