cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/26365993
Iâm the quiet, introverted one and I may be on the spectrum. I like to do my job and go home. I hate drama and drama queens and ignore people when they start gossiping. Many extroverts find that offensive and talk behind my back like teenagers do. This stupid drama is the only reason why I quit my job after finding a new one.
I agreed to stay 4 weeks with the company because some coworkers are actually grown ups, it is a breeze to work with them and I can use their experience to be a better professional.
Back to the immature ones: Past me would ignore their sarcastic and passive aggressive comments, which took a toll on me but now I have nothing to lose and I couldnât care less what they think of me, meaning I started to answer back using their same tone and so sarcastically and passive aggressively as them: they yell at me accusing of doing something on purpose, I politely tell them to calm down and to seek help.
Most of my coworkers are women. Since I started answering back and being a jerk, they toned their b%tchiness way down, it is more pleasant to work here now.
I donât understand why my coworkers treat me with some respect now that Iâm being a jerk and I hate I have to be a jerk to be treated with a modicum of respect. I donât know if Iâm wrong but I think they have an idea of what a man is supposed to be and now that I fit their definition of a man, they leave me alone because they see in me something familiar to them.
I find it sad I have to be an ass to be treated with respect and I hope to find a workplace where I can be myself and work with no drama.
Is this something thatâs going to happen no matter where I work?
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Okay, first off, fellow introvert here:
The problem youâre describing isnât really an introvert-extrovert thing, itâs a sociable-antisocial thing. I think your gender dynamics theory has some merit, too, but what you need to understand is that, before, you were acting antisocial.
Ignoring people is antisocial, and moreso when itâs people talking about their feelings. To you that was worthless drama but to them it was their emotional experience. Now youâre engaging; and yes, with hostility, but at least thereâs communication and connection.
And in my experience, a lot of more blunt people have trouble telling passive-aggression apart from a more indirect communication style. âDid you email Bob from shipping yet?â is very blunt, to the point of rudeness. âItâs important that Shipping is up-to-date on these developments, Bob is their point personâ is much less confrontational.
So Iâd say itâs not being a jerk thatâs improved your situation, itâs matching communication styles with your teammates.
Not OP but this is a hell of an insight, thank you.
Youâre right that I would have no frickin clue what that second sentence would mean. Someone asking me if I emailed Bob yet directly would not offend me, and Iâd prefer it.
My only solution so far has been to say directly to my coworkers that they wonât offend me by asking directly but that doesnât work 100% of the time. I get paid to do my job, not decode 400 lines of possible subtext from a passing sentence because theyâre afraid of asking a question.
I still say hello and act friendly though. ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
In case this is helpful (to whoever)
Response Options:
Sure is. Bob is great. Is there a problem?
That makes sense. Who is Bob?
Sir, this is a Wendyâs. Can I cake your order. (Only applicable if you are on shift at the Wendyâs you work at.)
Wendyâs puts your order in a cake now?
These gimmicks are getting to be a bit much.
do you know those couples where they only communicate yelling? Why would a sane person want that? It still doesnât make any sense. To you engaging with hostility is better than not engaging but I still find it appalling and prefer silence and quietness over yelling and drama. Yelling is extremely draining.
OTOH your post makes me understand how some people think, hopefully a very reduced number of people, but if this is how some of my coworkers communicate and expect me to communicate, quitting is still the right choice. This cannot be healthy on the long term.
Going on, Iâll match my new coworkersâ communication style and volume, but it can get really ludicrous if 2 âadultsâ at the office start yelling at each other (reason why I prefer to simply disappear)
Still baffled, because yours is a whole novel idea to me: angry communication, even toxic, aggressive and unpleasant is better than no communication. Not saying that I agree with it, but Iâll think about it when dealing with some of my coworkers.
Insightful, thanks. Iâve recemtly gone from a tech position to a more sales oriented one and Iâm constantly agitated by the passive language sales and marketing people use. Iâve actually started using AI to understand calls Iâm on because I have trouble following all the sales BS.
Yep. Iâm on the blunt side and Iâve been told by some people that they thought people did something wrong based on my direct communication. I had to respond that I work in an industry where you have to be blunt to communicate what you want, so bluntness is the standard.
On the flip side, Iâve gotten frustrated by people who are far more passive in giving direction because it ends up leading to poor decisions and rework that should have been addressed because they didnât provide clarity when asked to.
Unless OP is in a management position, where politics and such BS may as well be in the PD, what on earth is the need to judge your co-workersâ personalities?
Iâve dealt with a lot of different people at work, vastly different people. But as long as we can get the work done, let it be introverted or antisocial, it just doesnât matter? Hell, even if it gets in the way of my job, there are professional ways to move forward. Iâm here to get shit done and collect my paychecks, not to have âemotional experiencesâ every day with everyone. There are some 4000 people in my company, I canât socialise with everyone, I donât want to socialise with everyone, and I certainly donât care if someone refuses to socialise. 99% of them are not too different from random online strangers to me. Communications usually just go âCan we do this?â âSure.â Then fast forward 3 months they may not even still work here. I socialise with a handful of people I like, and Iâve made some good friends. Others I absolutely donât care. I expect communications to be productive, not âemotionalâ. Iâm just an IC, not the companyâs counsellor.
this. so.much.this
as much as Iâd like to use this line, if I do where I work now, a meltdown will ensue with the drama queens at my workplace yelling at me.
And then Iâll be labelled not a team player.
wait, so iâm forced to interact with crappy people if i want to be left alone? why would they take offense in you just wanting nothing with them?
They take offense because âwanting nothing from themâ implies that they have nothing to offer. Even if this is true, itâs still rude to imply.
And yeah, pretty much the only way to get needy conversationalists off your back is to throw them a bone once in a while, even if itâs only a âooh thatâs rough, but whatcha gonna do?â or a ânot bad, yourself?â
but some of them do have something to offer: job experience and know how, but they fixate on gossiping and badmouthing other coworkers when theyâre not around.
sounds like some horrible childish people to be around holy shit.
I still donât get it, but theyâre this needy, apparently
Really insightful comment. I did not understand OPs perspective at all but it feels like youâve hit the nail on the head.
When I first joined the work force I had this idea that âI was there to do a job not make friends.â but that attitude made me miserable
could yo describe why it made you miserable? To me a job is something I do for money, not because I need friends. There are bars and clubs to meet people.
This was years ago. But Iâve never been much into the bars and clubs scene. I remember at the time just feeling isolated and alone. I didnât like spending 8-12 hours every day without any connection to anyone. Along with an extremely high pressure work environment, I was breaking down into tears on my way home most days.
I did it to myself so I was able to open up and find ways to connect to the people around me once I changed my attitude.
I also found some solidarity. It started as just a few complaints about how things were run but eventually I joined the union who helped me recoup a bunch of stolen wages.
Matching communication styles is the key here. If thereâs a general chatty vibe to the team and youâre the only one not engaging then youâre the odd one out and that will invite comment.
If your team are chatty, you donât need to go all out at the same level they are, but showing some willing and chatting at least sometimes will usually be enough to ensure harmony. Knowing how to disengage without causing offence or annoyance is also an important skill.
my team is not made of people who simply want a hello. I donât want to even say hello because if I do theyâll dump on me a monologue about their weekend, what they cooked or the reasons why theyâre angry at another coworker.
can you write an answer with tips to disengage without causing offence?
I donât think I can do this: while your post seems genuine I still find it ludicrous to have to placate needy people with attention this way. If I give them a bit of attention, theyâll want more and talk to me even more about their feelings at the workplace and distract me, something I donât want.
If you want a productive outcome the first thing youâll probably need to do is realign your thinking about this. Youâre not having âto placate needy people with attention this wayâ, these are your teammates, and above all, other human beings, and theyâre inviting you to be part of their group. Engaging with them isnât doing them a favour, itâs doing you a favour. Yes, some people will take the slightest opportunity to talk your ear off, but not engaging at all is just setting up walls that leave you on the outside. Equally, you need to respect your need for focus and lack of distraction, which can certainly be tricky if everyone else is reliving the drama of their weekend.
Iâm certainly more on the introverted side of things, but Iâve found it very beneficial to get myself out of my shell regularly to talk to other people at work. The best way Iâve found is to effectively âtime boxâ chatting time. Find times when people are generally more relaxed and chatty and youâre not focusing on work. Iâve found lunch time is often good as people will chat, but also have natural reasons to break off themselves. Maybe they go to the gym, or are meeting a friend for lunch, or maybe they just want a bit of peace and quiet! Whatever it is, itâs a good opportunity to chat for a few minutes, then if they donât break it off, you can plead a prior engagement and break away without upsetting anyone. Even claiming you have to get back to your desk to finish a report will do. Once people find they can interact with you, but only a bit, theyâll often self-regulate.
TLDR: loose the attitude that youâre having to âplacateâ the âneedyâ and start seeing socialising as an opportunity to develop better conbections with your team. You never know when that can come in handy.
Challenge yourself to relax and spend at least 2 minutes socialising in a friendly way tomorrow, then work on extending that up to a point tgat people seem comfortable with, without them swamping you. Youâve already handed in your notice, so you have the perfect, low consequence situation to practice in.
thanks for answering.
I guess I could play a small social experiment and see how people react before I change workplaces and decide if I can and want to keep placating people this way?
Notice that I get along with some coworkers. With these ones I donât need to play theatrics. Itâs the loud, yelling ones with no boundaries the ones that grind my gears and make me want to run for life.
I definitely feel your pain with the loud, no boundaries ones, they can be exhausting if you either donât or canât manage them efficiently. Thatâs where I found that engaging on my terms at times that gave natural reasons to break off helped. I found most people were a lot less likely to dump if I was âinâ the group, but just seemed busy/preoccupied, rather than when I was âoutâ of the group.
Think of it this way, being able to socially interact with your team in a normal work environment is a useful skill, and like any skill you only get better at it by practising. It might be hard work initially, but youâve got a great opportunity right now, so go for it. Itâs no great loss if it doesnât go smoothly, youâre heading for the door anyway.
Good luck, and remember, if it all gets too much, you need to go, youâve got to have that report on your bossâs desk by the end of business today.
That is something a hr manager would say. No need to realign my thinking at all. Thank you. Iâve tried too many times to get out of my shell because Iâve been told to. And guess what, I donât tick that way because me, Iâm an actual real introvert and have learned my lesson.
Ha, no Iâm definitely not, and have never been, an HR manager. Itâs just one of those lessons Iâve learnt over multiple decades of working in an office and similar environments. The thought realigning is just to realise that youâre not trying to âplacateâ others, or do them a favour by granting them your time, but youâre actually helping yourself as being part of the âinâ group, even if youâre then quiet can make life a lot smoother. Iâve found people a lot more accommodating once they know me well enough to know Iâm not being hostile reserved, so much as just quiet and focused reserved. It usually doesnât take more than a few minutes per day of saying hi and maybe listening to their excitement about the latest sportsball results before people sort of mentally tick you off as being part of the group.
Iâm not trying to say itâs easy, itâs not. Itâs not particularly enjoyable to begin with either, but as you get into the habit of it and expect to spend x minutes per day conversing with people, it gets less difficult. Also, just listening with an occasional âuh huhâ goes a surprisingly long way, people always appreciate a listener, and that way you donât have to do much talking.
Iâm not so sure myself. I want to be me and choose who I open up to but sadly this society is run by extroverts. Not many of them understand that some people work better in silence and are not interested in their lives. They act like I hate them but what I feel is indifference. Some of them are reeeeally thin skinned.
I guess I could play a small social experiment and see how people react before I change workplaces and decide if I can keep placating people this way?
Notice that I get along with some coworkers. With them I donât need to play theatrics. Itâs the loud, yelling ones the ones that grind my gears and make me want to run for life.
Hereâs the secret.
Thereâs a huge difference between not speaking to people and saying a few words.
If someone says âhelloâ to you and you ignore them, they think youâre snubbing them. If you just say âhelloâ back then they are usually satisfied.
Try timing your interactions. Youâll find if you spend even 15 seconds talking to people theyâll end the conversation themselves.
sadly, thatâs not the case where I am. They always want more.
Like I said, try timing it.
I think youâll see the conversations take less time than you think.
I thought Iâd never be glib, but after getting a job where I had to deal with the public all day, I soon realized it was just a muscle like any other. the more you do, the more you can do.
I will time it. Thanks
Itâs like doing planks. You swear youâve been holding it an hour, but itâs really five seconds.
I gotta admit, itâs way easier to be a moody silent anti-social guy than to be one as a woman. Iâve seen plenty of the former (am one myself) and itâs just shrugged off like âoh heâs just like thatâ, but to be a moody antisocial woman is practically a death sentence in an office environment.
I donât have any answers, but you do have my sympathy. I can only say it pays to learn how to force a smile, even if it feels insincere.
thank you
Iâm a terrible actor and I hate phony people.
See it less like a way to lower peopleâs defenses for your own gain, and more as a way to telegraph your general passivity (passiveness?) to anyone who happens to look in your direction.
Iâm bad at it myself, but I know others who use it all the time and marvel at their ability to just fade into the background, which I think is the desired outcome.
Itâs an unhealthy environment, and they are subconsciously saying they donât want to be there either. Itâs just one job in one building in one company in one country. Thereâs many other opportunities out there that are not like Glengarry Glen Ross.
My general experiences with having kick up the agressiveness is dealing with other men. Most of my experiences with women have generally been fine but I am in tech so any women are pretty intelligent and educated.
Unfortunately, yeah. The more you let people walk over you the more comfortable they get doing it. Being blunt is a good way to stop that kind of behavior, when someone is rude asking direct questions like âwhy are you saying that about them?â makes people uncomfortable and will get them to stop dragging you into drama. Especially in todayâs American climate people feel emboldened to attack people they see as âweakâ so you need to not appear âweakâ and (this is the much more difficult part) stand up for everyone else who the bullies are targeting
Yes, iâve made more or less the same experiences.
I tended to be shy, kind and gentle when i was a child/teenager. My mother always pressured me to âmake more noiseâ, which just means, be more rude. Another girl in my class that kinda liked me also informed me that i would have to be âmore self-consciousâ, what i interpret as âmore arrogantâ. I hate it.
Funnily enough, now that i have adapted to society and tend to treat other people a bit more roughly in general, and try not to be âtoo friendlyâ, people call me out on that again and ask me to âshow more respectâ.
TL;DR: People are assholes; Ignore 90% of what they say, if possible. Just be yourself. Itâs the best person you could possibly be.
Iâm surprised to see that your post has been upvoted. Usually the shy, quiet ones are mistaken for arrogant jerks and get bullied and downvoted by the extroverts.
Iâm actually conflicted because on one hand I want to be me, my freedom above everything else, I choose my friends and the people I open up to and otoh I wonder if I should play theatrics for short bursts of time (like 2 minutes) to placate some coworkerâs fragile egos.
My teenager self with my parents were like yours: open up, talk more, you are not normal (yup, my father told me that). They bullied me and I tried that for a week, extremely tiring and ridiculous to talk to them about stupid sh*t I donât care about just to please the needy extroverts, but obviously I would go back to my normal self, because they are so tiring. My parents didnât respect me, same as these needy coworkers now.
It doesnât make any sense trying to change a personâs personality. So sad that extroverts feel we do this because we hate them.
I still donât know what the ideal solution is, or if thereâs an ideal solution.
thanks for your post and good luck to you.
we gotta keep trying :)
is my opinion at least
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