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Turns out, pretending the entire Internet is equal to 5 apps from mega corps (largely fueled by pretend money) wasn’t the best long term play.
Who would have thought?
@0xtero
@hedge
This has become the prevailing opinion for most of the tech-savvy folks that I know, but it’s gaining traction with a wider audience.
Having steeped in corpo-climate for two decades, it’s naïve to say that the C-Suite has ever maintained a realistic perspective on the business that they run; but it is baffling to me that corporations like Reddit have completely lost sight of their actual product - a clearinghouse of perpetually donated content - and seem to believe that their platform cannot be easily duplicated, or made obsolete nearly overnight.
It’s exciting to be an insider as new paradigms like the fediverse become more widely known. If the last week is any indicator, there is a non-zero chance that ultra-capitalist hubris will be punished.
As much as it pains me to say it, I think they are right. The value in social media is in the size of their user base and I don’t see a mass migration to another platform really happening unless reddit itself went completely offline for several weeks. People do not like change and Reddit will continue to be just “good enough” despite the API changes. If anything their decline will be extremely gradual since moderators will have lost most of their third party moderation tools. And niche communities can probably keep ticking along without them for the most part.
Previous sites died because there was a continual stream of new VC funded initiatives still in the ‘seduce new users’ phase of low-zero monetization for people to jump to. That tap of new, user-friendly sites has been shut off by the recent interest rate hikes curtailing VC funding.
Worried we’ll eventually settle into semi-collusive model we see Cell Carriers and ISPs have. If all 5 major social media sites stay in lock step of monetization, who are you going to go to? And without VC money, what new site will be able to truly scale?
The fact of the matter is that I don’t care if something is a monopoly as long as it’s a monopoly for it’s quality. Reddit used to be that, a hub for damn near all of my interests, and I used Boost to make the experience great.
But reddit is getting worse with this change, so I’m here now.
But the problem with social media is that monopolies in this area aren’t about quality, they are about user base size. Which makes them impossible to dethrone once they hit critical mass. Reddit and other social media sites have a massive amount of content with people willing to figure out a way to sift through the garbage.
It will be interesting to see how bad things get once reddit moderators can no longer use bots and other tools in order to help them sift through content due to the API changes.
Yeah. There’s nothing inherently wrong with monopolies. The problem with them is just the behaviour that they tend to slip into, the squeezing of their customers for maximum revenue while not bothering to invest any of it in improving their services. There are some “natural” monopolies that manage to do okay, though usually as a result of government regulation.
Some monopolies are so solidly “okay” that we don’t even notice that they’re monopolies. The Internet, for example. What alternatives to it exist? None, really. But since it’s a decentralized protocol rather than some sort of Internet Incorporated with shareholders and quarterly profits to maximize and whatnot it’s managed to stay good and the fact that it’s a monopoly is actually beneficial in many ways.
@FaceDeer
@hedge @0xtero @gk99
As for monopolies… they are inherently bad because of the lack of motivation to innovate, or improve. You have no other option, and no ability to create one.
I don’t want to stray too far from the topic, but I feel like I need to address the mention of the internet as a monopoly.
If you’re talking about TCP/IP, it’s just a protocol that the most widely used - but others exist, and outperform it in their niches.
The internet is a collection of technologies that are owned and operated by thousands of companies. All have competition in their arenas.
ISPs have constructed local fiefdoms - but there are nearly always multiple services that one can use. Backbone companies own the major routes, but you can almost always go around one if it misbehaves. Myriad email providers, websites, etc exist to offer choices, as well.
Categorically, the internet can not be or become a monopoly. It’s core purpose is to provide as many avenues as possible to connect machines to AVOID monopolization.
nobody thought. that’s a big part of the problem-- late-stage capitalism doesn’t plan beyond this quarter’s profit statement.
It’s nice to see an article which finally states the obvious truth–that Reddit wants the third party apps to die so they can have a captive audience to advertise to.
It’s not just that. If I’m accessing all of my reddit content through the app developers api pull requests they can’t track what I’m doing except for when I comment/post/vote. They can’t tell how long I spend on the site, where I’m scrolling, what I’m looking at, nothing. All of those API pulls are through the developers account, not mine.
So not only am I not looking at their ads, I’m also not giving them any information on what I’m doing at all, so they can’t really give that information to their advertising partners.
Then of course they don’t have the ability to send me random alerts on my phone to pull me back into their app.
Discord is a tough one, since those communities aren’t open to search indexer and archiver crawls, losing that would extinguish a lot more of our collective knowledge.
Hopefully dedicated server teams branch to matrix or another more open platform.
Discord is like the worst source for knowledge anyones has ever used as such.
I regularly find myself searching for stuff where there is only a small community and when they use discord and you want to look something up, you can straight up look into the sourcecode because it helps just as much. It is really devastating to be in this situation and I would really like for people to just get rid of discord and use a real wiki or forum for this kind of stuff.
lol dude this is flat out wrong. Being able to ask active communitites things is useful to a lot of people. Have you ever even heard of IRC???
What do you think happened before google had everything indexed?
It’s useful to chat it out with people sometimes especially when you are all collectively centered around a single topic.
I’ve learned mass amounts of things through IRC and often times they don’t just give you the answer they give you clues to help you figure it out.
Discord will be similar for many people. It’s not necessary to archive every last bit of information. It’s OK to talk to real people who enjoy talking about said topic and letting them guide you real time.
Oh yeah, it’s always cool to ask randos if a mod also runs on Linux only to be told by 3 people that they don’t know and then to have someone change the topic.
Wouldn’t want that in an indexable thread in some forum where you might find it by it’s title and also see answers directly and not wade through 5 weeks of 17 topic only to find out that no one got it to work.
And yes, there was a time before search engines, but you cannot possibly suggest it was better than now. Now we have better tools and should use them.
I’m not saying it’s better my point is there is shit loads of that going on since forever. It’s not hurt anything and some people prefer to chat it out because searching can also get you a load of nonsense. Guarantee you got your answer. It’s mostly super niche communities. If properly run they have searchable forums of a FAQ.
We need to understand, though, that the Fediverse is going to undergo similar changes and struggles. People aren’t going to want to pay to run servers, forever, and there will be lost servers and ones that suddenly have ads or subscription fees.
Granted, this creates competition and it’ll be better for the end user, but the utopia of Mastodon and KBin is going to be challenged by the crappy, but very real, realities of the world.
or we can get cooperative model that is already present in a couple mastodon instances.
Well, that would never happen as long as they figure out a appropriate way to make a profit. Mastodon using ‘Crowdfunding’ system to earn money
I think the only difference is that there’s at least a chance to keep interacting with the community from an instance that is not showing ads.
I’m wondering if a Co-op model would work for some of these alternatives. Then they would be less reliant on a single owner/developer system, there would be additional support for some of the businessy components, and there would be a built-in groups structure for resolution of issues.
I’ve been watching the formation of a co-op Etsy alternative, and I’m very interested to see how that goes. I think it’s fine to complain about corporatization, but I think it’s also crucial to build and support other models at the same time.
https://artisans.coop/
I am not a member of this Artisan’s Coop, but am considering it.
destroy reddit ASAP. force google to remove its reliance on reddit. It’s time we stopped giving free content to enrich idiots like spez and ohanian. and oh yea and stop Musk as well.