Email is an open system, right? Anyone can send a message to anyone... unless they are on Gmail! School Interviews uses two email servers t...
Email is an open system, right? Anyone can send a message to anyone… unless they are on Gmail! School Interviews uses two email servers t…
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Thinking about starting my own personal email server, but to use it seriously I’ll have to weigh the pros and cons. If anyone has anything on this to share I’d appreciate it.
Short answer: Don’t.
Long answer: It is a massive amount of work, not just to setup, but also to maintain. On top of the fact that the big email providers block smaller email servers like crazy. Even if you had business class Internet service at home, the IP range is most likely already in their block lists. And if you have it on a VPS, the amount of time and effort it takes to get the security and filtering going properly is nightmarish.
It really sucks, but it’s a fait accompli.
Would agree.
Even when done 100% by the book and correct. Companies like Google and Microsoft, in particular, will just randomly send the email to spam.
I gave up after years of fighting the good fight and went to googles free tier. That is now over and I probably just need to move to some other service.
Also dont use a gTLD or if you do, have a backup .com or .us as well. Many forms dont recognize things like .email as legit.
Additionally, these days the sheer amount of flak that a self-hosted mail server gets are enough to make a lot of providers ask you to either shut it down or go somewhere else. Probably 80-90% of the server’s inbound network traffic will be bots trying to brute force access (usually over POP3 or IMAP4, though occasionally SSH) to use it as a spam relay as well as relatively dumb bots just assuming that your server is an open relay and trying to send garbage through it. That kind of traffic hogs a lot of bandwidth and the hosting provider will have to do something about it to keep their infrastructure stable. Also, figure that you’ll be spending about as much CPU time on the server for anti-spam processing on a 24x7 basis.
I have to agree with other commenters, it’s just not worth the hassle and kinetic pattern baldness these days.
I use fastmail. I pay for it, and it works great.
Yeah, I think this is done to provide the illusion of choice. The rate limits are high enough to allow personal emails through, but for any mass emails or corporate emails this forces you to use Google. Unfortunately a standard corporate strategy, it’s why corporate office suites are so generic and tend to be from one of the big companies.
When I went to the DMV my independent mail server was immediately filtered into spam when I tried to email them my proof of insurance. It was no trivial thing for them to get it out of the spam filter, either
Leave the google ecosystem. Embrace alternatives like Proton.
@Jo Oh god, that reads horribly like this article about Google killing XMPP that spread around last week: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
The term you’re looking for is ‘Horizontal Conduct’ and it’s illegal. The hard part of course is making that claim against the team of lawyers that Google would be able to field.
And this is how you kill an open standard. Good resource to share with people cheering for Meta to adapt ActivityPub etc.
That’s why I only use Gmail for website signups. It’s very unreliable for any emails that you depend on.
Meanwhile I get spammed 100s daily from asian job posting systems that I mark as spam/unsubscribed and they still come through. Apparently it’s all a scam to show need for H1B visas?
But that is not true at all. Spammers can easily send mail with all proper SPF, DKIM and DMARC records and signatures. A lot of spam is and will be sent like that. Those extensions do not make spam impossible, they just make it easier to track and block.
But this does not change the point of the article – in this case it is a specific domain sending very specific non-spam messages. SPF/DKIM/DMARC prove it is not someone else – GMail has no ground for blocking these (unless were are not told something).
And GMail has been breaking mail for years now. E.g. I hate them for breaking message threading by ignoring threading headers and forcing own view on how messages should be grouped.
How does one send a spam email that passes SPF and DKIM if one doesn’t have access to the DKIM private key, or the DNS server to edit the SPF or DKIM records?
You can’t… But you can register a domain and set up your own DKIM key and DNS records and then use it to send spam (until you get blacklisted, anyway). There’s a cost to doing that, though, so it’s less appealing.
I’d presume someone like EU would be interested in this.
Anyone know a decent alternative at a reasonable price though? What if I have an @gmail today, and I want to move my storage elsewhere and have that just forward?
I feel like step 1 is just buying a domain so you can have control over your e-mail address, and then you can switch providers whenever you want (or host it yourself).
If you already pay for extra iCloud storage you can use a custom domain for e-mail with iCloud… Many people are already paying for this, and if not it’s only $1/mo. Apple’s still a pretty big e-mail provider, so maybe that doesn’t address all of your concerns, but it’s a really cheap way to use a custom domain that more people should take advantage of imo.
I host my own e-mail and it’s pretty care free these days (I don’t send bulk e-mails, though, so I don’t contend with rate limits at all). Honestly, more people should do it instead of buying into all of the fearmongering about e-mail… It’s a little tricky to set up right, but the impossibleness of the situation is somewhat exaggerated. The best defense for self-hosted e-mail is if more people actually do it… Otherwise you’re just capitulating to the large (and slightly less large) mail providers.
+1 on having your own domain. I was using gmail for a long time, and recently switched to my hosting provider’s included-with-purchase email. Having my own domain made the move transparent to everyone, and relatively painless.
I switched to ProtonMail and have really enjoyed it. I was using my own domain with Gmail so my email address didn’t even change.
Any advice or hints on how to switch over? I wanted to do it years ago but I dread having to change my main mail address on everything, from apps, tools and games to bills or RL document-related stuff, it sounds like a horrible mess and ton of work
My recommendation (assuming you have a normal @gmail addy and not a custom domain like I had) would be to use email forwarding. So you can leave your Gmail as is, but set it up (in the settings) to automatically forward all your email to your new protonmail address. Then you can gradually change the important contacts/sites to your new email at your leisure.
I do highly recommend buying a domain and setting up your own email address though, it gives you a lot more portability going forward. You can actually do a lot with your own domain, and it helps you maintain trust better.
Anyway, enough preaching lol, protonmail also maintains a guide to help people switch: https://proton.me/easyswitch
For those considering Proton Mail: There is one great benefit or disadvantage, depending on how you see it. As all traffic is encrypted, Proton Mail does not support standard IMAP or POP3. It’s therefore best used with the official Proton Mail app rather than third party apps. On desktop, you can use your favourite email client (Thunderbird et al) only if you install a “bridge” which decrypts incoming emails before forwarding them to the client: this bridge is, in turn, only available to paying subscribers.
That said, it’s a great service, and the fact that they have a viable business model which doesn’t depend on selling out their users might be a good thing.
IMAP supports TLS, what’s Proton’s excuse for enforcing their own delivery protocol?
For anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGfahzt-4Q
This gets little in depth on this issues.
Here’s another fantastic article related to this. It’s about someone who’s had to give up on selfhosting.
https://cfenollosa.com/blog/after-self-hosting-my-email-for-twenty-three-years-i-have-thrown-in-the-towel-the-oligopoly-has-won.html
It’s actually far worse than the Igregious article makes it look.
I wish they’d gone into a bit more detail about the issues they had, where they hosted, how they tried to fix their ip reputation, which providers blocked them, etc.
I’ve experienced the same issues in the past, but didn’t find any of the insurmountable.
Though admittedly mine is more ‘small business’ than ‘self-hosted’, so I can afford to buy a small IP block and run on dedicated hardware.
In my experience Office 365 is even harder to deliver to. The email envelope can be in perfect shape and sent via sendgrid (their recommended partner) and it will still silently drop mails for no obvious reason and if it does deign to deliver them it will often mark them junk.
I’m only sending low volume transactional emails. The amount of time I have to spend tweaking the email content just to persuade Microsoft to deliver the mail is absurd.
Yep, this is my experience as well.
I’ve had some issues with google, but at least they tend to put them in Junk, or tell me the messages are being rejected.
Microsoft will give me a 250 message, and then route the message to /dev/null.
That’s contrary to the RFCs, and really annoying. Since it doesn’t end up in Junk, the receiver can’t say ‘not junk’, and since it doesn’t bounce, the sender thinks it has been sent.
I’m signed up for Microsofts junk mail reporting, and when this happens the UI shows no issues with my ip, and doesn’t admit to any e-mail filtering. The only way I can detect it is by sending messages to my test accounts, or waiting for users to yell.
Fwiw, anyone else who runs in to this scenario, expect your first support ticket with microsoft to be rejected. Keep responding to it. On the second or third try they might end up removing the silent ban.
Email is a relict of a bygone era and needs to die. It’s not designed for the modern Internet, and no patching like DKIM and DMARC can fix that.
8:43 A.M. and already this is the dumbest thing I’ll read all day.
Do share the alternative with us, that’s universally supported and not owned by a corporation.
Already responded to someone else asking here.
So the article is about unwarranted 12 hour delays and your solution is to use a federated platform where delays are built into the system between server syncs? The fact that people cant see your other post yet because their local servers have not synced your post to this thread should be the first sign that this might not be a good solution to this email problem…
Email also is a federated platform that syncs. It’s just a matter of getting this working, it’s a solved problem on a conceptual level.
For example, all mail servers come with an outbound queue for mails to retry for at least a day until the mail goes through. Lemmy simply discards the message after a single try. This is a result of being beta-level software that just hasn’t been fully finished yet.