Lemmy, I have a problem. I fuck up social interactions incredibly frequently, far more often and severely than others do.
I will be speaking what I feel is casually and consistently, and the person I am speaking with will suddenly have a significant change in their demeanor and speech. It both makes me feel bad that they react this way and frustrates me that I made an incorrect interaction.
This doesnât really occur with people I donât know well. Rather, it occurs with the people I spend the most time withâŚmy coworkers. I am forced to interact with them all day due to my specific job. With one of them, I would consider them to be my only friend.
I have noticed that they all have specific unspoken âtriggersâ of speech or behavior that I need to minimize or hide when in front of them. But there are always instances where I cannot recognize a pattern. And even when I can kind of figure out a pattern, I sometimes fail to implement it.
You know the phrase, âthink before you speakâ right? But how the hell does one apply that to large swaths of conversations that occur all day long? It would be incredibly jarring and odd for me to make large pauses between each and every sentence I make. Is there a better shortcut to this?
Here are some examples of âoff limitsâ speech/behavior patterns that I have noticed among various people:
Coworker 1 - speech that shows mental weakness (esp anxiety), making a workplace error, anxious body language (this one is particularly difficult)
Coworker 2 - speech that shows mental weakness (esp anxiety), statements that are too negative, offering to let them leave work early
Coworker 3 - statements that are too negative, mentioning my dad, statements that may give them too much anxiety (sometimes difficult to discern), talking about coworker 1 too much in a negative way (even tho we both think coworker 1 is a bitch)
Coworker 3 also has repeatedly told me that I can come to them with issues, but they always get upset if I say something too negative. They seem to occasionally ask me trick questions too like âare you ok?â even though I know Iâm not supposed to answer truthfully. I donât understand this behavior or how to deal with it.
Coworker 4 - talking too much in general about any topic (they would just prefer I shut up tbh unless there is zero work)
Yes, there is some overlap among them, but they still have a lot of differences that are difficult for me to discern.
I mean, I guess the âeasiestâ solution would to try to never talk again outside of any speech that is immediately necessary to do my job. Coworker 4 essentially does this. But it is tricky to do and a bit depressing. As a human (I think??), I am unfortunately a social creature. And it does get a bit frustrating that I canât be authentically me.
Would appreciate some guidance. Sorry for the long post and thanks if you stuck around this far!
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It is significantly more acceptable to slow down and stop talking than a lot of people think
Iâm fighting the same battle, because I am in a quasi-leadership role now, and I have to say the examples of positivity and optimism, when my instinctive reactions to most things are rolling my eyes and sighing because âUgh, not this shit again.â Is going to be an uphill battle. The funny part is, Iâm never actually upset. The more problems get thrown my way, the more excited I get to solve them. Unfortunately I have this very odd habit of presenting my excitement in a way that everyone else in the world understands to be frustration and negativity.
Itâs also a lot less noticeable than it seems in your head when you pause. Taking that extra minute to edit a sentence in your head adds pauses that can also help to draw in people listening.
Be less negative, donât talk behind peopleâs backs, leave coworker 4 alone
I first read this as âDonât talk about peopleâs backsâ and I was in agreement with that cus that would be creepy. lol
Caffeine timeâŚ
The smartest people Iâve ever met pause for at least five seconds before answering direct questions. Some for much longer. Thereâs a Supreme Court justice who Iâm told pauses for like 25 seconds or more anytime sheâs asked a question.
I once had a boss like this and when he finally said something it was always âit dependsâ. I often wanted him to give a simple, quick, direct answer but I eventually realized things were more complicated than that. It reminded me of the Tolkien quote: âGo not to the Elves for counsel for they will answer both no and yes.â
I can be like this sometimes, but I normally try to let people know that the dogs are whirring.
Iâll especially do this if Iâm speaking to people whose first language is something else, as Iâll want to answer the question without resorting to idioms or slang. No point telling a Frenchman that the situation is a bit of a dog and pony show.
Your coworkers are not your therapists. If they say âare you ok?â youâre not required to answer them truthfully. You can just say âIâm fine, thanksâ and then ask how they are doing or whatever. Be careful what you say to others in the workplace. It can be used against you. Your coworkers are not your friends. (Generally speaking. It can happen, of course. But you should still remain professional at work.) Some can actively be looking for any excuse to screw you over so they can get ahead in their job.
As for âthink before you speakâ I think of that as âthink about what your response will be before saying it.â You donât have to think while speaking. That shit can trip you up big time. Think of conversation as a round of tennis or ping pong. Itâs just a back and forth.
And yes, in the workplace itâs a good idea to keep a lot of shit to yourself. Remember that they have their own stuff to deal with. Often people are just being polite when they ask you whatâs wrong or whatever. They might just be catching bad vibes and are wanting to know itâs going to affect them. Or theyâre drama llamas and want to soak it up or, again have ammo to use against you later.
You can be yourself at the workplace without spilling your guts out or making yourself vulnerable to everyone. Youâve already shared your solution: Often you should keep things to yourself and just talk about work-related things. Leave any political opinions at the door. Keep social interactions as shallow as possible if itâs not work related. Social stuff like food, the weather, what you saw on Netflix, etc. Shallow stuff that doesnât offend anyone or expose your belly to them, etc.
Welcome to the adult working life of walking on eggshells. It is indeed taxing.
On thinking before you speak, it means this: if something is said that makes you want to respond right away, when you sense a physical reaction (of hurt, anger, sadness or wanting retribution), or you are in a situation where what you say matters a lot (an interview, a meeting with higher-ups in a company etc.), itâs a mental cue for you to block immediate responses which can cause you to run your mouth in ways you later regret. Instead, you actively make an effort to listen more, and consider your situation and the other peopleâs situation before responding. So itâs not a 15 second pause after each sentence, but a 15 seconds you take while the other person is going on about whatever before you inject yourself into a conversation or before you make your point when itâs your turn.
On interacting with your coworkers, theyâre not your therapists, so you can talk about whatâs new and the fortunate and unfortunate things that happen to you over the course of a week, but the basic idea is to avoid making your problems their problems when you do.
Iâm of a more positive nature but I love to info-dump on my coworkers about my favourite topics. I try to offset that by involving them and asking their opinion, showing them cool things, and then taking the turn to let them discuss their own intersts and thoughts on things, and follow up with that. And I try to get a sense if they arenât interested in talking at a particular moment or are losing interest in the middle of a conversation. EQ skills are about taking that pulse.
If you need a place to start: The idea is give and take, and it should be in relatively equal amounts. Would you be able to tell me what has been on the minds lately of Coworkers 1-3? Or have you spent most of the conversation about yourself and your issues? (#4 doesnât sound interested much in sharing their personal life, so you donât have to probe them on it).
This is an awesome response. When you think about it, a similar saying is âRead the room.â While not entirely 1:1, itâs a similar theme of employing empathy.
Also, I bet it is more socially acceptable to take a beat and think before speaking than you think. I learned that for myself and it helped. Itâs not as jarring as you might think. It can even make people appreciate what you say more. If itâs really taking long, you can stall a bit with some âI need to think about that one, hmmâ lines.
Learn to respect yourself and stop caring what others think. Youâre there to work. Get shit done, quit wasting time worrying about other peopleâs feelings that are out of your control.
I think you might be pretty close to the answer here: small talk. Conversation about stuff that isnât going to make anyone uncomfortable. People at work arenât friends, but youâre stuck spending lots of time with them, so try to find topics youâre all happy discussing.
So:
It depends how you phrase this. Generally, admitting weakness isnât something Iâd do around coworkers, unless youâre putting limits on what youâll do (âI donât like closing up, Iâd prefer not toâ) or looking for help (âI want to get better at X, can you tell me how?â). But that depends on the person.
Yeah. At work, be positive or donât go into the topic. If you think a coworker dislikes a thing and you want to bond over hating it, donât go first, get them to show you how far theyâre willing to go, then donât go further.
I dunno what to say about this. Ask for help at getting better? Apologize for screwing up? Otherwise I wouldnât mention it again.
Again, keep conversation positive and light. If youâre bitching about your dad, donât. If youâre saying what a great guy he is and they still get uncomfortable, just avoid the topic.
Donât do this. In the best case scenario, you bond over hating a coworker. In the worst case, the workplace becomes toxic. Accept that youâre stuck dealing with coworker 1 and move on. At most, acknowledge that coworker 1 can be difficult, but move on.
So. Smalltalk. Find stuff to talk about that nobody is gonna have strong negative reactions to: TV, streamers, sports, weather, traffic/transit, local events, weekend activities, happy family events. Avoid stuff that people have strong negative reactions to: politics, religion, painful topics, suffering, etc.
No, I fuck up even in small talk. For example, we were talking about supplements and exercising one day.
Coworker 2: Yeah, running a 10 minute mile is easy. Anyone can do it.
Me (a slow runner): What??? Idk dude that is kind of hard for me.
Coworker 2: Well for some people walking is healthier than running!
Me: What??? Ok sure, Coworker 2
Coworker 2: (angrily shuts down and refuses to say anything else to me for several hours even after I apologize)
Coworker 2 being angry with me was one thing. But I felt bad because coworker 3 was also chatting and it meant that they no longer got to speak either because coworker 2 was so mad.
Small talk with coworker 1 doesnât work at all because they will randomly randomly act condescending to you when you make a joke or say something that doesnât land exactly with them. Itâs a bit demoralizing so I try to interact with coworker 1 the least.
I donât outright tell coworkers 1 and 2 that I am anxious. But I will sometimes obsess over certain work things that I am anxious about and they get wise to it and get upset with meâŚeven if what I am specifically doing to them is apologizing for acting weird because I was simply anxious.
I had considered coworker 3 to be my friend a bit tbh. But that is not supposed to be the case, right? We are not supposed to be friends or anything. I am supposed to find friends elsewhere and not think of them that way, right?
If people want to discuss serious topics with me then Iâm just not supposed to contribute, right??
There is no âsupposed toâ about making friends with people you work with. Some may have that opinion but lots of people have made friends with coworkers. Sure if the friendship goes sour it could get awkward at work, but lots of people can navigate friendship without drama.
Itâs hard to tell nuance from a text rendering of that conversation, but it potentially sounds like you were rude to coworker 2, reacting dismissively to their comment.
.
âŚso are you coworker 1? Lol
I get that I am truly a horrible person, truly. I struggle with that every day. I did try to apologize to my coworker in that instance, but they were not at all receptive to it. Usually the things that I say that get reactions like that are much more innocuousâŚlike letting coworker 2 know that they can leave early (we are salaried and still get a full days pay if we leave early). Or apologizing to coworker 2 that I was freaking out about a work related task simply because I was anxious about it.
But no, coworker 1 is on a level that is difficult for me to describe. Coworker 1 causes issues with almost everyone they come in contact with including the leaders of many different departments. It has been so bad with coworker 1 that they have made me think that I was going to get fired and/or made me want to quit my job. Coworker 1 has had multiple complaints filed against them to HR by multiple different people. To my knowledge, that has not occurred on my end at all.
So coworker 1 is a bit dangerous to interact with, hence many of us do so minimally.
Look, communicating awkwardly doesnât make you a horrible person. I think part of it is you have a confidence problem. It sounds like you always cowtow to your coworkersâ reactions, even going so far as apologizing when you havenât objectively done anything wrong (your responses donât seem that weird, but maybe it is the way you say things). It seems odd to me that anyone would be offended by an offer to go home early, unless youâre making it seem like you specifically donât want them to be around.
At the end of the day, your coworkers are just people with their own issues and imperfections. They are probably not experts at communication either, so donât treat them as such. I would not take any social cues from coworker 1.
You may not be able to change the dynamic at work, so my advice is to find a way to socialize outside of work (with people who actually like & respect you!). That way you wonât have to rely on your workplace for those needs.
I canât tell if this is sarcastic or genuine.
If itâs genuine: congrats on finding a new friend. Donât cut them off because an internet rando said something.
If itâs sarcastic: itâs inappropriate to react to advice that you solicited in that manner. Since Iâm being honest, itâs more appropriate to honestly state where you disagree, and why the advice doesnât work for you. That way I can better understand your situation.
If someone is full of shit at work, Iâd just nod and smile. Unless thereâs something to be gained by calling them out, Iâd just note that they are uninformed on that topic and move on.
Again, Iâm not sure if this is sarcastic or genuine. The two question marks, and the ârightâ make me think itâs sarcastic, but I could be wrong.
Either way: talk about what you want. However, if you want to keep things civil with your coworkers, itâs easier if you avoid divisive topics.
Keep conversation away from your beliefs until you know where the other person stands.
Ask questions. People like talking about themselves, so thatâs an easy way to keep things moving.
Make noncommittal statements.
I apologize if anything came off as sarcastic! I am being very serious in my questions. I donât really understand how any of this works. I have been reading the replies but itâs tricky to respond to them all.
With the friend thing, there are a lot of philosophies people have about work. Some people believe I shouldnât speak and should only work all day, while others seem to prefer to chat once in a while. For me, itâs difficult for me to know the most correct way to act in terms of these two philosophies. It seems like a lot of society would like the formerâŚthat I should speak minimally and just do my work. I struggle with the former philosophy because you spend most of your waking hours working, so I would like to get some enjoyment out of it. But that is wrong, no? I am supposed to hate my job and just be a good worker bee, no? Itâs tricky because humans are social creatures but I know Iâm not supposed to feed my needs like that.
And like the person who I had considered to be a friend. They have a busy life outside of work so itâs wrong to bother them, correct?
The person who I had considered to be a friend sometimes likes to talk about serious topics. But I am not really sure what to do when that comes up because I at times give the wrong answers. I know a lot about their beliefs. We have different ones and usually thatâs perfectly ok and I we donât really argue or anything. But sometimes I still do it wrong or say something with too much emotion in my voice or something.
They werenât actually full of shitâŚthey are just super fit and donât realize that they are a bit outside the norm.
So one of the things Iâve noticed is that I slipped up like this because it was in the middle of a flowing conversation. I didnât stop to realize that I was about to say the wrong thing because we were having a lot of back and forth lighthearted chatting. Thatâs why Iâve brought up this topic to begin with tbh. If I am not in a flowing conversation, itâs easier for me to pause and think before a response. When I am in a conversation I fuck up. I donât know anyone who pauses between each sentence even utilizing this âthink before you speakâ attitude, so Iâd like to find out how to implement it in a better way. Idk.
I do appreciate your time.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to respond. Iâm enjoying this because it gives me a chance to understand my own beliefs. And itâs fun to spout off.
Thereâs no correct answer here. Youâve expressed a preference for chatting, so letâs support that.
Occasional or friendly disagreement is fine, so long as it doesnât poison the relationship.
Could you pause before replying to sort out your feelings? If youâre concerned that you have too much emotion in your voice, that could give you time to notice your emotional state and dial it down. You could even turn the disagreement into more of a joke or quip rather than something heartfelt.
You can use your pause as part of the conversation. Give a thoughtful âhuhâ or maybe start with a throw away phrase of âI hadnât thought about thatâ and then pause.
Some people are in a hurry to say their piece - they really wanna get their thought or idea in. In my experience, itâs helpful not to do that. Itâs difficult though.
If your chats are as innocent as the running topic then donât mind their issues. Nobody can know what someoneâs state is that makes them sensitive to random triggering.
As for what others said about bullshitting about someone behind their back or being overall negative, you can work on those.
Youâre thinking too much already. They might not even be reacting negatively to what youâre saying but youâre so insecure that you read into stuff that isnât your fault. Or maybe youâre going too deep for work place conversations. Like talking about personal stuff that is not what most people wanna here. Honestly, based on what you posted, you are a weird guy that has weird thinking. Itâs okay, no judgemental because I am too. But what Iâve found works with people is too just fit in with them. Donât air your dirty laundry out too them and just talk about mainstream stuff. If itâs something you think might be what the average person isnât into, just donât talk about it.
Yes, they accuse me of âoverthinkingâ things a lot in general. But they donât realize that I have to do this in order to try to do things more correctly. Lack of enough thought is what gets me into these kinds of situations, you know?
Iâm definitely not imagining most of these. If everyone is happily smiling and chatting away, and then I make a mistake which causes a sudden change in facial expression, curt response, and the sudden end of a flowing conversation, then itâs not my imagination.
Coworker 3 is the most lenient/forgiving of them, but issues still arise with them too.
Give me an example of what you said.
Most people say ummm ⌠uuuh ⌠between words because they were too quick to answer and need to think. Itâs a fine line though, which you need to develop over time for yourself. My boss makes very long pauses before he answers and looks kinda frozen while he thinks. Itâs a bit confusing but I appreciate that he cares about what we are talking about.
Look up Charisma On Demand on Youtube, it might have some interesting topics for you. Just donât try to forcefully apply everything. Everyone is a different character with their own quirks and thatâs good.
The saying âThink before you speakâ I believe is not meant for during conversations specifically but for when you give your opinion on something and itâs based more on emotion than facts.
If you are in a quick conversation with someone, you might feel the pressure to avoid any stretches in silence. Try to not feel pressured. Pausing for 15 seconds isnât feasible, but one or two seconds helps a lotâŚ
It breaks your train of thought, allows you to catch enough thingsâdoesnât have to be allâto formulate a measured response. If you want to go one step further, try not creating a response in advance and wait for your turn to speak. Instead, listen to what your conversation partner says and restate a quick summary in your own words before you advance the topic.
âCoworker 4 - talking too much in general about any topic (they would just prefer I shut up tbh unless there is zero work)â
I am this person lol without knowing them at all I can say at least for this type of person I think the best thing to do is just be direct about work stuff, get to the point right away after the initial pleasantries of initiating the conversation. If theyâre anything like me they might actually dislike conversation for similar reasons that you feel anxious. I just donât have much to say other than strictly work related business and it stresses me out to be stuck in a âmeaninglessâ conversation.
If coworker 1 really is âa bitchâ then there isnât all that much you can do, just treat her similar to coworker 4 and just accept that she might be judging you for stupid reasons. Thatâs more of a âher problemâ than a you problem. As they say âyou canât make everyone like you.â but that doesnât have to mean thereâs anything âwrongâ with you, some people just donât mesh well.
Yeah with coworker 1 I try to interact minimally with. It works out ok. So I mostly talk to coworkers 2 and 3 but I still tuck up with them all the time.
Nah, coworker 4 isnât anxious. She just wants us to work as quickly as possible so she can leave as quickly as possible. I donât talk to her much either tbh. It can be a bit frustrating when she sometimes gets upset when I am chatting with a different coworker (because she wants me to shut up and not talk to anyone at all).
I always say that thinking before speaking is a bit like wiping before going number two.
Maybe thatâs why I donât have any friends.
If we have a toilet paper shortage, Iâm blaming you. lol
Youâre descriptions kind of make your coworkers like NPCs. If you want to have better conversations you should probably get to know them better as people. That can allow you to understand the why of their particulars and eventually guide your conversations more organically.
I mean, forgive me for not explaining every detail of all of my coworkers lives in this thread. The post is already stupidly long and I was trying to get to the meat and potatoes of it for those that might be able to help.
I know some of them quite well and I am constantly learning new things about them. I can speak organically with most of them (except coworker 4), and often do so at length with coworkers 2 and 3. But my mistakes are still frequent enough and significant enough that it causes major problems. I am constantly learning what not do to, but there are seemingly infinite permutations of conversation and infinite ways things can and do go wrong, even when I find some of the patterns.
You donât need to give explicit details of your coworkersâ lives, but from your writing it really seemed to me that you were more interested in mechanically optimizing conversation. This isnât necessarily a bad perspective, but people already do that organically by understanding each other more and learning their history. The route of good conversation follows logically from there through empathy.
Well yeah so I kind of wrote the post in a detached manner because I am trying to mechanically optimize conversation. Doing things organically doesnât work out for me even though my heart is in the right place and I just want to get along with people and for us to be happy.
Iâm 30. People telling me that things will work out once you get to know people better do not at all understand that I have spent many many years doing this and yet I still fail horribly multiple times per week. Iâm not some teen with a still developing brain. This is the way I am and I want to figure out how to improve and be more correct in my interactions. If it hasnât organically happened in 30 years, itâs not going to organically happen now. So I need a different approach. Getting to know people and your heart being in the right place arenât the magic solution for me.
I have just never been skilled in that manner. So I would like to try to break it down into a more logical way where I could actually work on it. All too often I get frustrated that no one has written a guidebook on every facet of human interaction.
Social skills, as the name implies, are meant to be trained, maintained, and expanded over a lifetime so donât discount yourself because you feel like youâre too old or have tried and failed for too long. Have you considered seeking behavioral therapy? Perhaps youâre not picking up on the myriad non-verbal social cues that could help you better inform your conversations. Behavioral therapy can help identify where youâre lacking and give you the opportunity to practice skills and receive feedback from a professional.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
Think further before, donât wait for the middle of a conversion. Run potential future conversations through in your mind before you even see these coworkers and decide in advance how youâll respond to various topics so you donât have to do it in the moment.
You can do this in front of a mirror to practice the body language you want to project, as well.
By chance, are you located in the Midwest? Or neurodivergent? Because Midwesterners really arenât comfortable with most kinds of explicit negative emotional displays, and there are very specific ways to indicate negative emotions appropriately. And IME most NTs are distressed by the way NDs tend to express anxiety.
If I could sum up all of what Iâve said into one sentence, itâd be: Stop displaying anxiety to your coworkers.
Oh GodâŚhow can I possibly hope to think of every single permutation of conversation??? It sounds like I would be thinking about conversations indefinitely if I did that. Any tips???
No, I am not in the Midwest. I did have a therapist ask me once if I was neurodivergent and I said no. I donât think I fall in line with anything like autism or anything like that. I do struggle with human interaction but everything else about me seems pretty âneurotypicalâ. Even in conversation, I actually am able to carry on normally and understand a lot of social cues, I think, as well as I have the ability for eye contact when I am not anxious. I struggle a bit with anxiety and told someone that I struggle sometimes to order food at places because of that. That person told me âthatâs weird because you seem totally normalâ in a non sarcastic way. It made me feel good actually lol and like Iâm very normal passing haha.
No, thatâs pretty much it, think about conversations indefinitely. After a while itâs pretty automatic, people arenât all that different from each other.