A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy đ
If your post meets the following criteria, itâs welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
Icon by @Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de
- 0 users online
- 217 users / day
- 934 users / week
- 2.44K users / month
- 5.59K users / 6 months
- 1 subscriber
- 3.07K Posts
- 119K Comments
- Modlog
Because performative protest like wearing pussy hats isnât actually as effective as general strikes or direct action.
The McResistance fades because thatâs all it ever was.
God all the fucking rich elite throwing literally abortion themed parties around the DNC meeting before the election was so fucking tone deaf and the exact kind of thing people will use against the party in an election and yet they still went through with it because performance is all that they know.
Yes. Democractic establishment throws elections away rather than tries to win them. And frankly the professional elite base of the party is more than happy with it and thinks if you disagree with them youâre an uneducated sexist/racist.
Itâs also far less effective than building a strong politician coalition, as Trump and his supports did.
Frankly if I went to a MAGA rally Iâd probably feel more accepted and welcomed than I by my fellow Democratic voters. And this is why Trump got so many votes this time. His supporters are enthusiastic, energized, and generally welcome to anyone who is angry and upset. Democrats kept chiding the voters they should be so lucky to have a black female president in such a great economy and if you werenât supporting them you were a bad person.
Frankly as a white guy from a working-class background, all the D have done for me is alienate me for 20+ years now. And tell me that I should vote for them anyway.
You want the real answer?
Inertia.
Think about the scene in Fight Club where the homework is to go out and start a fight. It isnât easy. Most people have never hit another person their entire lives. Men who punch walls or tear their shirts off to throw down with someone over perceived offenses are not the normal. Thatâs tail of the bell curve behavior. If it wasnât, people would be fighting in parking lots everywhere you go.
The inertia of most peoples lives is to avoid conflict. This is why only a handful of people in any building you happen to be standing in are suited to leadership roles.
Now, if you can get one of those guys in the right conditions to stir up a mob hive mind then the game changes. Until then, most people will be propelled forward by inertia and conflict avoidance.
This is 100% correct.
Also donât discount the economic system working as intended. If I get off the hamster wheel to âriot,â my family quickly loses basic necessities.
Once my best alternative to a negotiated resolution moves off that reality (meaning keep my head down and my family will get through this) more options become available. The system is designed to keep a critical majority on the wheel.
This is exactly the reason these Natalists are âpro-forced-birthâ. Childless adults are a threat because they donât have to think about their minor dependents before revolting. They want everyone tied down with families so we canât even consider getting off the wheel.
There was a lot more demonstrations and outrage during Trumpâs first term. I think now everyone is just exhausted and over it. Dems got beaten pretty bad in the election, and are probably very demoralized after this outcome. Maybe it will add up to a landslide in the next senate/congress election, maybe not.
They werenât beaten badly, it was barely a 1.5% margin. Electoral votesâŚ.different story. But even then, this illustrates that a few more votes in key states would have had a drastically different outcome.
I think they mean âbeaten badlyâ as in âlost control of all three branches of governmentâ not so much âTrump landslide vote.â
The person you responded to even said âDems got beaten pretty badâ not âHarris got beaten pretty bad.â
By the metric of losing the house, losing the senate, losing the judiciary, and losing the presidency is a pretty deep blow.
I didnât think âDems got beaten pretty bad in the electionâ was open to mean all elections.
There was only one, there are more seats than just the president up for vote on election day.
Ok, youâre right in this sense. However, I meant beaten badly in the sense of expectations vs. reality. If you followed any media, it was supposed to be a slight edge for Kamala, or at least a good chance for an upset. In the end the Râs got president, senate and congress. And the outcome was clear after the first few hours, unlike something like Gore vs. Bush.
I agree. I certainly felt the outcome was going to be much different.
Thats still beaten badly. The election is entirely about winning electoral votes, and the dems failed that. They didnât win votes in the right places and lost votes compared to the last election.
The entire presidential election campaign is always about winning electoral votes and that means winning votes in swing states.
I find this line of thinking so defeatist. Yes, we all know the electoral college is the system, but all also know itâs a sham and almost every honest person hates it because it undermines the idea of democracy. Imo the day people stop thinking the popular vote is what should count is the day we all collectively gave up on democracy.
Itâs truth, though. I donât like it either, but we know the popular vote is currently meaningless. Iâll champion any cause that wants to change that, but thereâs zero chance of that happening while the GOP controls the house, the senate, the courts, and the presidency.
Your line of thinking however prefers to dismiss talks about the popular vote as though what people are thinking in the country broadly is off topic or irrelevant. How the hell do we change this if no one is ever allowed to mention the topic without a naysayer reminding us the popular vote is meaningless?
Maybe next time theyâll lose by even less! Thatâs about the best progress I can hope for in this country in my lifetime.
Definitely. This is what beaten badly looks like:
There were more variables than just Trump.
COVID and all the conditions it created.
Depends on how badly he fucks up the country.
We wonât get legit progressive reform until there is another depression or world war.
Youâve asked two different questions.
Didnât stop Republicans on Jan 6. The truth seems to be that one side is willing to do anything to gain power, and the other is unwilling to do anything to keep it.
I donât think thereâs any contradiction there, though. The Dems arenât rioting because they accept legitimate outcomes, while the Republicans are only accepting favorable outcomes. No one is rioting right now because the Dems accept Trumpâs win as legitimate and the Republicans accept it as favorable.
Most telling move IMO is how they sidelined Tim Walz for being âtoo radicalâ.
All he was doing was talking facts and smack. Democrats canât have that! Itâs not decent!
Only if you lose. Get your man in power by any means necessary and he will pardon you.
Trump losing in 2020 was the only reason needed for a riot.
Every single part of this comment just screams âIt just wouldnât be proper!â
And Iâm sorry, but I canât seem to care about whatâs âproperâ when half my friends now have reasonable fear for their lives, not just âcomfort of livingâ just because they are lgbtq+ living in deep red country.
No one said anything about proper.
I answered the questions posed. I didnât add any other context or inject my feelings into it. If you want to have a discussion about the ramifications of this person being elected, thatâs another conversation. Iâd be happy to engage with that and Iâm sure you and I would be in agreement.
He lost the majority vote so technically not a majority of voting Americans voted for him.
Thatâs a bit concerning that you have this fact mistaken.
Trump: 77,168,458 49.9%
Harris: 74,749,891 48.3%
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-ELECTION/RESULTS/zjpqnemxwvx/president/
Ah your right it was just a extremely close gap after all the tallying was done. Shows how bad memory can be.
Because for many people, political unrest is the problem theyâre trying to avoid, and their problem with the new administration is that it is a catalyst for unrest.
Someone mad that our 45/7th President upsets the applecart isnât going to go flip an applecart themselves in protest.
British and France tried to appease Hitler for peace sake too during ww2, and look where it got them. You shouldnât sacrifice freedom and rights for peace
Iâm not saying itâs right, Iâm saying itâs happening.
peace without justice isnât peace. justice without peace isnât justice.
appeasement doesnât work because you attempt to trade justice for peace, but that just erodes your peace. the justice system claims to provide us justice, but violence is sown all throughout it, meaning it cannot give us justice as true justice is restoration from this system
A lot of people are pretty pissed at the dems for not doing enough too. Theyâre so obsessed with being a party for everyone that theyâve become a party for no one, theres a huge divide between what people want and what theyâre doing. They need to unify, organize and take some stances even if it pisses some people off. I think a lot of people are just demoralized and âpolitically homelessâ as in they just donât identify with either party so what is the point? What would be cool is if a bunch of randoms ran third party on their own ideas and formed a coalition but good luck with that
Because rules and decorum are what âgood peopleâ think is most important to protect rather than people and actual morals.
Funny thing about most leftist activist groups is they wonât take a hard stance because they are afraid it will dry up the money spigot by âlooking badâ.
And of course the virtue signalling and purity tests that inevitable result in them become taking fascist stances towards groups they donât like.
To what end? People were warned. People lived through 4 years of this. People remember the shortages and inept handling og COVID. People voted for this.
Should I explain why having a totalitarian govt with the modern technologies is a VERY bad idea?
i think their point might have been -
you donât have to, enough of this country either heard it and didnât care, or just doesnât care
leading a horse to water and all that, maybe?
Not to me, and not to them either. I already know, and Trump supports donât care. These people donât read history and were brought up through a poor quality education system that told them the US was the greatest nation on earth and we never did anything bad, and if we did, well, it worked out in the end didnât it?
Those who read history are doomed to watch those who donât read history repeat it.
If you canât even get people to care enough to lift a pen and mark a ballot (or press a button on some machine), how do you get people to riot?
Nearly 78 million people voted for this, and another 90 million stayed home and said they didnât care.
The whole point of democracy is to allow everyone to express their opinions through votes instead of violence. So either the election was rigged or the country wanted fascism.
Considering trump sort-of gave an admission of that and there were reports about the hacking of the voting system before, I wouldnât say ârigged electionsâ is that far off from the truth
Evidence of significantly rigged elections would certainly be a cause for some significant action and demands for a new election.
But Iâm not talking about one-off reports of someone using their dead motherâs info to cast an illegal second vote. Even a rogue election official tossing a couple dozen ballots doesnât really move the needle. We would need to see evidence of millions, or even tens of millions, of votes being impacted for that.
And I canât really say for sure whether that did or did not happen. But thereâs not enough evidence to action.
Instead, I look around at my neighbors, even in a blue city, and see tons of Trump signs on lawns, stickers slapped on cars, people wearing hats and T-shirts. Thatâs not enough evidence for me to definitely say there was NOT fraud, or even to confirm that Trumpâs win is legitimate. But it does affirm that there are real-life people who have fallen for the propaganda. These arenât just Russian spies trolling on the Internet or bots running on Muskâs servers to artificially update posts. These are real people who have chosen hatred.
The rigging wasnât done at the polls. (The Democratic and Independent poll watchers wouldâve reported that, and Iâm not seeing any of such reports)
The actual manipulation was the constant far-right propaganda made possible by the Citizens United ruling, which allows the rich to spend unlimited amount of money to spend on propaganda. That and voter rolls purges. These things have always happened to some degree throught the history of the US.
Because liberals are cowards.
Thatâs the real answer.
Would rioting actually make anything better? Seems like people have more to lose by rioting than they do by posting a mean tweet
I agree, people disagree, seriously, I donât care about the tweering stuff, but, say I gather 20-50 people and hold a demonstration at what, city hall? State Capitol? My local, and stae government wont change. So what am I supposed to do? go to a republican state and cause aimless mayhem? Am I supposed to take a semester off from college and work with the funds I do not have to travel to D.C. and what call for him to step down? His impeachment? Better accountability? He wont, his party wont.
Whatâs needed is not a protests, not a demonstration, not even a riot could seemingly change this. Realistically it would need to be a revolution. and Realistically people living paycheck to paycheck are not highly motivated to throw away thier life so they can risk thier life to start a ârevolutionâ
Food is quickly becoming out of reach of many Americans. The conditions are becoming ripe for revolution. Itâs no surprise cop cities are popping up all over the country.
Iâm not aware of any Americans worried their children will starve to death. Various housing and food assistance programs exist. Such apocalyptic language simply does not ring true.
Yes I love how America didnât have a war of independence or a civil war. And it was all handled by paperwork. Ah what good times filing notiferizing it was crazy times
Why would we have a war over the elected presidentâŚholding office? Dems need to do better and win the next election, not start a civil war.
Cause theyâre spineless
Deomcrats have the center while republicans have the far right and to more than half a degree the far left (granted the more than are the true crazies who are so far left they go right and then the fifty is just the virtual effect of if I canât have far left I will accept far right over center). The center wants a functioning government that runs by the rules set down by the consitution. Unlike some on the right who feels the constitution is frozen at the way society was at its birth the center looks for change by using the mechanisms of change put into the government. So many will protest but rightly view rioting as just hurting the common man. Musk and friends donât live in neighborhoods that have ever been burned down by a riot. Its never even reached their gates. This is why luigi had such broad appeal. It was an action that did not hurt any innocents.
I think another point is hope, even if people start large protests, riots, etc. What can it achieve, who will achieve it? Short of a full revolution, will anything have an effect?
Trump wont step down even if the country is alight, with republicans in power in senate they wont impeach or muzzle trump.
Any sort of protests needs ro have a goal, something you can imagine it will achieve. If you cant picture anything postive coming from it, why would you want to?
This is it for me. I just donât see an outcome where politicians respond to protests in any way other than doubling down and arresting them.