Traffic means nothing.
I disagree. They have a reason for running it again, and the most obvious reason is to offset the traffic loss for July. Most advertisers aren’t going to be aware that /r/place is a limited-time event. What they’re going to see is what reddit will tell them: hey, we did these API changes, and yeah it cost us some traffic at the time, but traffic overall had recovered by the following month - hell, we even had a increase in traffic in July!
They know they’ve breached trust with their userbase, and they’re trying desperately to avoid doing that with the advertisers as well.
Copying my comment from the other threads:
reddit started trialing a “Community Points” program in 2019 in /r/ethtrader, /r/cryptocurrency and /r/fortnite , where posters and commenters could earn “Community Points” that were supposedly backed up with crypto that you could eventually cash out. They announced an expansion of the program in December 2021 but, afaik, they never actually did so. Which might have something to do with the fact that one of the /r/cryptocurrency mods made $10,000 by selling community points. I don’t know if the program has actively continued since then; maybe someone who was in the three trial communities can say.
My point is that reddit has been working on something similar to this program for at least five years now. And this article isn’t based on any announcement by reddit, but by someone examining their source code. It’s possible that this code has been present for a while and reddit has leaked it’s existence to try to attract back some of their lost contributors. Or even that it hasn’t been present but they included the old code in the newest app release and then pointed it out for the same reason.
In any case, this article isn’t based on any official announcement, and reddit has been “trialing” a similar program for over four years. I wouldn’t hold out any hope that this actually sees daylight anytime soon, or that it’ll work well if it’s actually released.
14 years, 17 accounts, ~2000000 karma. Nuked everything: deleted comments and submissions, de-modded myself, unsubbed from everything, gilded various protest content using the coins I’d been given over the years, bought a cool Apollo app t-shirt, walked out and walked away. Nope, don’t miss it; I’m exploring kbin and tildes, and getting my meme content from imgur. Which is ironic in a way, because the sole reason imgur was created was because reddit refused to allow native images.
Are you having regrets? It’s okay to have regrets.
Is it on display in the bottom drawer of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying, “Beware of the leopard”?
More seriously, just make it an incredibly uninteresting door that no one even thinks about, which everyone thinks is like for plumbing or linens or something boring and irrelevant. Then paint the door in whatever Disney NoSeeUm color is most appropriate.
For me, it’s not just that they screwed up the API changes, it’s that they’ve repeatedly kept doubling down since then.
It’s also … I keep thinking back to Ellen Pao. They brought her in knowing that they wanted her to get rid of FPH and Victoria, knowing that at least the FPH thing was going to make her a target of the misogynistic GamerGate haters and bringing in a woman anyway, and they deliberately and repeatedly refused to give her any public support. It was completely reprehensible, and they cheerfully scapegoated her and kicked her to the curb when it was done.
As bad as that was, I also see elements of the same thing happening here, where this is a highly unpopular change, and there’s no one else from reddit speaking up to support spez. I think they’re going to have him force through the changes and then kick him to the curb like they did Ellen. They’re not going to reverse any of the changes - it’s what they want, after all, but they’re going to let spez take all the heat and go on their merry way completely unphased.
To be completely honest, I think spez deserves this: his job as CEO is to have vision, manage public relations, and handle crises, and he’s miserably failed at all of those. He misunderstood reddit’s most valuable assets (it’s commentary and the large group of people contributing and moderating the site for free), and he literally paid the API fees for some very profitable and potentially profitable companies to suck every piece of data from reddit; then he publicly targeted small publishers who enhance reddit instead of presenting them as collateral damage of the AI wars (I suspect to avoid bringing attention to his incredible lack of vision in letting everyone freely harvest data for their own lucrative products). And he’s clearly failing in the PR and managing crises front as well. But I truly believe that everyone at reddit is perfectly happy to let spez do this thing that they want done, and then they’ll throw him away when it’s done in an attempt to appease the users.
Anyway, your question is “what will I do if reddit undoes the API changes”. Given my beliefs, I simply don’t see how I could possibly trust reddit management ever again. And trust is a really big thing with me; I don’t think I could ever go back.
Unless you’re reddit management, here to gauge user temperament, in which case I will totally return if the API changes are undone, yes, of course I will, just trust me!
Hello, LAUK mod! Thank you for all the good help you’ve given people over the years.
whilst excitedly looking to treat you like Elon treated 6,500 twitter employees.
I don’t know if it’s been forgotten in all the confusion, but two weeks ago, reddit since that they were laying off about 90 staff / 5% of their workforce, and restructuring some of the rest [ https://www.axios.com/pro/media-deals/2023/06/07/reddit-layoffs-hiring-ipo ]. And now, if course, in addition to the layoff/restructuring issues, in addition to the absolute insanity caused by reddit’s stubborn reaction to the very people who populate and moderate 99% of the data on their site, their workers are also more having to deal with Huffman breathing down their necks, insisting that it’s absolutely vital that they deliver a fully-functioning set of mod tools on the 1st - tools that they’ve repeatedly refused to even really look at for over a decade. [I expect a shit show.]
But anyway, just wanted to point out that the reddit layoffs are already starting.
I made this comment in another thread last week, but I think it still holds up:
I think what this entire debacle has revealed is how incredibly unfit Huffman is to be involved in running a major site, much less one with as much reach as reddit.
I’ve read most of his comments and it’s all centered around “reddit can’t afford to keep paying everyone’s API fees while everyone else makes bank”. Which is fair enough.
But it also reads like a CEO who simply hasn’t been paying attention to much of anything and who woke up one morning to realize that they’d already handed away the company’s most valuable assets by letting Google and ChatGPT and other LLM companies harvest everything they need to build their products while reddit happily and blithely pays the bills. And now that other companies are starting to look profitable by building off what reddit paid to give away, Hoffman is both massively jealous and panicking, desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
Only instead of going through every company that uses the API, figuring out how much they use and what they use it for and how necessary that use is for reddit’s business, it looks like he panicked and tried to charge everyone the same rate. He didn’t do any research into the issue and realize that Google harvests massive amounts of data that it uses in it’s search results and to improve and program it’s products and makes massive amounts of money, vs small apps that run basic queries that massively improve the reddit experience and that don’t make much money at all. He just wants to charge everyone the same amount and keeps demanding that small apps pay the same as Google, because he’s pissed he wasn’t paying enough attention to notice what was going on.
And he’s scared shirtless because he’s had an easy run of reddit CEO, and now people are asking questions about his lack of vision and he’s afraid that no one will ever give him such an easy and lucrative job ever again. And $10 million in the bank plus whatever stock options he has may look like a lot of money to us peons, it really isn’t among the people he wants to keep hanging around with.
The one thing he’s doing half-smart is the spin game. That’s what that AMA was about, not to engage with the community, but to put out a dozen or so pre-written quotes that reddit could point to in interviews and say “look, here, this is what’s really going on, and we’ve tried.”
In the end, I think Huffman’s massive failings can be summarized in his comment that “[reddit will] continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive” - as if the arrival of profits is inevitable and no one needs to do anything to ensure their safe journey. Which seems to summarize his period as CEO: just coast along like normal and surely some profits will arrive - and then panic when the profits start arriving for companies with CEOs who do they job and attention to their business.
I think what this entire debacle has revealed is how incredibly unfit Huffman is to be involved in running a major site, much less one with as much reach as reddit.
I’ve read most of his comments and it’s all centered around “reddit can’t afford to keep paying everyone’s API fees while everyone else makes bank”. Which is fair enough.
But it also reads like a CEO who simply hasn’t been paying attention to much of anything and who woke up one morning to realize that they’d already handed away the company’s most valuable assets by letting Google and ChatGPT and other LLM companies harvest everything they need to build their products while reddit happily and blithely pays the bills. And now that other companies are starting to look profitable by building off what reddit paid to give away, Hoffman is both massively jealous and panicking, desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Only instead of going through every company that uses the API, figuring out how much they use and what they use it for and how necessary that use is for reddit’s business, it looks like he panicked and tried to charge everyone the same rate. He didn’t do any research into the issue and realize that Google harvests massive amounts of data that it uses in it’s search results and to improve and program it’s products and makes massive amounts of money, vs small apps that run basic queries that massively improve the reddit experience and that don’t make much money at all. He just wants to charge everyone the same amount and keeps demanding that small apps pay the same as Google, because he’s pissed he wasn’t paying enough attention to notice what was going on.
And he’s scared shirtless because he’s had an easy run of reddit CEO, and now people are asking questions about his lack of vision and he’s afraid that no one will ever give him such an easy and lucrative job ever again. And $10 million in the bank plus whatever stock options he has may look like a lot of money to us peons, it really isn’t among the people he wants to keep hanging around with.
The one thing he’s doing half-smart is the spin game. That’s what that AMA was about, not to engage with the community, but to put out a dozen or so pre-written quotes that reddit could point to in interviews and say “look, here, this is what’s really going on, and we’ve tried.”
In the end, I think Huffman’s massive failings can be summarized in his comment that “[reddit will] continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive” - as if the arrival of profits is inevitable and no one needs to do anything to ensure their safe journey. Which seems to summarize his period as CEO: just coast along like normal and surely some profits will arrive - and then panic when the profits start arriving for companies with CEOs who do they job and attention to their business.
Remember, he grew up a rich white boy in full apartheid South Africa, and never matured beyond that. He has no ability for self-reflection or introspection. Which means he’s never wrong, so someone else must be to blame. So far, that’s included religious, racial, and sexual minorities. He’s only going to grow more deranged as time goes on.