Except how are you going to change society without some form of power, which forces you to use the state? I wouldn’t call it utopian what they were describing, while anarchism to me sounds more utopian. Without the power to defend yourselves, the power of capitalists, current, former, or foreign will destroy you.
So for a concrete example, if you end up in the worker coop for a finance company and own a slice of that, or work in Microsoft and are an employee-owner of that, you’d end up a lot better than if you worked in a fast food restaurant you partly owned. Is that kind of what you’re saying?
It sounds like it’s similar to saying climate change isn’t real because the weather was colder one day, when in actuality the theory of global warming is describing an ongoing process and tendency of the temperature to increase in the overall system overall long period of time, it’s not a day to day weather phenomenon you can describe with a singular slice of time.
I think that’s Richard Wolff’s whole thing. I think he’s communist? At least socialist.